Hey, the hybrid buses have hit the streets!
Hey, the hybrid buses have hit the streets!
The first of our hybrid buses are now on the roads!
Four articulated diesel-electric hybrid buses from New Flyer are now in service on the 99 B-Line route. We’re expecting 39 New Flyer articulated hybrids in total, and they will all be in service by September 2009. (141 hybrids are also coming in from Nova this year!)
How can you spot the articulated hybrids? Well, from the outside, the biggest difference is the big grey boxy hump on top of the back section. Regular articulated buses have a tiny little box on their back sections. There’s also a hybrid sticker on the window beside the front door!
And once you step inside the bus, you’ll notice the seats have fancy new vinyl upholstery, just like on the new Mark II SkyTrain cars. David Lam took a picture of the interiors in April: click here to see.
I wrote about the hybrids before and here’s the pluses again: they’ll save 15-20% in fuel consumption, and compared to the older buses, particulate matter levels (the smoke they send out) are reduced by 90-100%. The transmission of the hybrids also provides a smoother ride!
So a big thank you to Leon from our engineering department for passing along the hybrid news! Here’s three more of his photos below.
Ooo, looks nice! I’m guessing they’re mostly on the 99 B-Line routes, yes?
Correct me if I’m wrong :P
3 hybrids broke down this week on the 135 and that is not a good sign…. hopefully they last…
Burnaby uses artics on such routes as the #43, 44, 99, 135, & 145… So you might see those new buses on any of those routes…
I rode hybrid articulated busses in Chicago two weeks ago (click my name to see a picture), made by the same company although they look slightly different. They still had the “new bus” smell inside. The thing I like about these hybrids performance-wise is their quick starts from a stopped position. The older articulated busses take forever to rev up, especially when starting up a hill and it always drives me nuts. I was on the 97 once in a articulated bus going up Snake Hill and someone was commenting how slow the bus was. The driver said that the engine is only 4 cylinders and the same one they use on the standard busses lol.
But back to Chicago, I also like their stop announcing system and digital display inside their busses. The announcer says the stop name loudly, clearly, and in a non-automated way (along with public service announcements between stops). So it doesn’t sound like “*ding* Guildford….WAY!” but more like what the 98 line has “The next stop is Grandville and 41st”… nicely, clearly, and flows well. I’m going to miss it when they discontinue the route in the fall. Any idea to which route they will be deployed to instead? 95 B Line to SFU (replacing the 135)?
The display inside also shows the current time which I think Translink should do as well when a stop is not being called out, instead of being blank.
While the older New Flyer 40′ standard lowfloors and 60′ artic lowfloors have the “same” engine i.e. the Detroit Diesel Series 50, the artics use a higher horsepower model than the 40′ standard coaches.
The 40′ standard coaches use an Allison B400R transmission while the 60′ artic coaches use an Allison B500R transmission. “R” in the model name refers to “retarder”, which is an optional feature used to help slow the bus down when braking; saves brake life.
A number of people in a transit forum that I’m in have asked about the rear end equipment… it seems to be more complicated than other DE60LFRs.
How are these hybrids on hills? The #257 articulated buses regularly have trouble getting up to the Upper Levels Highway — yesterday, the hottest day in Vancouver ever, our driver had to pull over twice so’s to let the engine cool down.
As far as I know the buses are only on the 99 route right now. I’m certain they’ve tried out the buses on hills though: extensive testing was done when the trial buses were here in April. Let me see if I can find out any more info on that.
Claire: I sent your comment over to fleet management, and here’s the reply:
That reduction in particulate emissions sound fantastic – since that’s one of the worst things about diesel buses (that and the noise).
I really like the suggestion above that the displays show the time when they aren’t displaying a stop name… when the display is blank I always wonder if it’s working/on and then wonder if I need to ask someone to alert me to my stop if I’m on a new route. It’s a minor thing but would be handy.
Mike: About those 98 B-Line buses — they’re going to be refurbished and used for Olympic services, and will be used in Surrey for their new 399 express service.
Jhenifer.
The Hybrids are overheating more than the regular Low floor flyers. B8122 overheated 4 times along hastings 2 days ago. And its Slow as a slug up the hill. I have yet to go out today but yesterday i saw at least 35 coaches b/o or overheated. Hopefully today wont be as bad.
399? whaat?
Was there some incredibly awesome announcement I missed at some point?
Do they have air conditioning? Its been totally miserable traveling on Translink services this week.
Wow they’re already on service? When are the nova hybrids coming and which routes will they operate?
from many sources including one from a CMBC manager. And made me furious why this decision was made. all new coaches Translink got from 2006 onwards ALL had a/c built in. and once arrived here in vancouver at OTC/BTC, they were all ripped out due to “higher fuel costs and not wanting to maintaining them.” All low floor coaches have very poor air ventilation. The Novas are a complete nightmare. The high floor coaches get the best breeze/ air flow. and don’t overheat as often.
EricJ: There’s no official announcement yet, but there’s been a couple of open houses in Surrey on the 399, asking for feedback on the route etc. Check out this post to see the open house details plus some useful links.
Steven: Sadly, I don’t believe there is air conditioning on these buses — in our bus fleet only the highway coaches have air conditioning. Unfortunately, it’s tough to justify the extra expense to outfit our fleet with air conditioning when super high temperatures happen so rarely in most years. (A/c draws more power from the engine, requiring more fuel to travel the same distance, etc, etc…)
Just as an aside, too, air conditioning also doesn’t really work on city routes because they stop/start so much—they open the doors frequently and basically nullify the use of the air conditioning (a/c works best when you shut all the windows/doors and isolate the interior space from the outside).
But as a fellow transit rider myself, I totally feel your pain! It has been sooo hot everywhere this week, and vinyl seats are no joke in these temperatures. I’m just drinking a lot of water and praying for the temperature to go down :|
Zack: The Nova hybrids are regular 40 foot buses and I assume they’ll just be used on routes using those types of buses throughout the system, not any route in particular.
I always thought air conditioning was an expensive luxury and support ordering buses without them so we can have more buses and go green. Yes just open a few windows and ensure the ceiling hatches are open, it makes a huge difference.
Jhenifer are there guidelines for the roof hatches? One driver insists on having the ceiling hatches half open to minimize debris from failing into the bus. I disagree with that concern because what can come in from the top (branches, leaves, etc) can enter from a side window as well.
At least the buses have heat in the winter – that’s something to be happy about.
I think it’s best to open the roof hatch just half, meaning just the front half. With the angled roof hatch, it really helps to pull air in as the bus moves, rather than just let it pass overhead.
Dan: with regard to your comment about the air conditioning being ripped out of buses, that’s definitely not true. I spoke to our fleet management group and here’s the response:
;-): I don’t actually think there are official guidelines for the hatch. I asked the powers that be about it once and the general conclusion seemed to be that it’s just left up to the driver.
As a long time operator, I am unaware of any guidelines for the operation of the roof hatches. This is one of the many (most) things that is left up to ‘Driver’s Discretion’. Also a an Artic Herder, there is no possible way for me to control the position of the rear or centre hatches.
As regards the position of the hatches in hot weather, a case can be made for having the front half of the front hatch open and the rear of the rear hatch open (Bernoulli’s Principle).
So why is it then that the BC Transit provincial fleet, including Victoria which has lots of stops and starts and doors opening and closing, can order buses with air conditioning?
Recently the TTC in Toronto and Seattle King County Metro has ordered all buses with air conditioning.
If public transport is to be competitive with the private automobile it must be nearly as comfortable as the private automobile.
I see that some of you are raising a stink over
A/C and roof hatches on buses! As a passenger I am going to say that Translink is too cheap to put A/C in our buses and yet it is installed on all the Orion highway buses. As with the hatches being open on the non-A/C buses; it is great for them to be open to allow air to circulate properly through-out the bus! If it weren’t for the drivers opening the hatches; we would have hot; stuffy and smelly buses to ride on; not much better than SkyTrain. This how the drivers and passengers have to compromise! So just go with the “flow”.
I as a regular transit passenger know what it’s like on the bus and I go with the “flow” until my stop!
I think the problem here is that even Translink’s modern buses have old fashioned engines, which use a lot of fuel. Sure, the new buses use less fuel than the older buses, but there have been engines designed which
can get 100 miles to the gallon (don’t know what that is in km/l), but the oil companies prevent them from being mass produced. If Translink was to only order trolley and hybrid buses, and require manufacturers to improve fuel economy in their buses by a certain amount, then they could afford to run air conditioning. ALL new buses in the BC Transit fleet come with air conditioning. In Prince George, drivers will usually turn in a bus without working A/C as it becomes a safety hazard in the high heat. Translink will change their policy as soon as a driver or passenger suffers heat stroke on their buses.
Considering that in most midsized and large cars the A/C unit is almost insignifant to the amount of fuel burned, why would a diesel powered bus or an electric trolley have an issue with an AC unit?
I’m not sure why the new trolley’s weren’t ordered with AC these things run on Electricity anyways. Electric powered vehicles are generally much more efficient and cost less to maintain to begin with.
I think it wouldn’t be hard to justify putting AC on the electric trolleys or the B-line buses . But regular buses really buses don’t get people taking transit anyways.
Why is there a weird picture of a woman beside my posting? I didn’t put it there, and considering I”m a guy, I’m not sure I want a woman’s photo beside my write-up.
Corey
Hmmm… it must be because of the email address you entered. Gravatars (the little picture icons) are linked to your comment based on the email address — so maybe somebody actually registered the email you put in.
[…] expecting 141 of these vehicles in total over the next three months, and we do already have 39 articulated hybrid buses from New Flyer on the streets — they all went into service by September […]
If the highway coaches can have A/C, why can’t other buses be equipped with A/C as well?
It would be great to have A/C installed on all the buses. Too often the windows on buses can’t be opened because their broken/stuck. I open the hatch up sometimes if the bus is too hot, but I notice that on many buses now especially the community shuttles, it actually says on the hatch “Do Not Open Hatch”. Why is that?
I could understand community shuttles having those decals because they are so a high and if you are short, they are hard to reach. Especially if the bus drives into a sudden heavy shower. But I’m also seeing it on regular buses that make it frustrating.
I have heard from another driver that passengers got hurt once when debris entered the bus via the hatch. Could this be the reason? Debris can enter from side windows as well.
Ric: The air conditioning question has been asked on the blog before, and here is the answer from fleet management.
I can’t find the exact wording now, but buses also don’t have air conditioning on frequent stop-start routes because the frequent opening of doors essentially nullifies the air conditioning. You need a closed environment for the air conditioning to gain power.
I have passed on the question about the hatch for an answer, though.
Also, I have just realized that this thread is where these air conditioning questions were answered… please do have a look through the comments and make sure your questions have not been answered already.
Ric: here is the answer from fleet management and a transit supervisor about the hatch.
Don’t the 40′, 60′ and community shuttles use the same kind of hatch and if they don’t what is the reason for that?
Ric: here is the answer from our fleet management department.
At lease do they have fans on the bus?
that is why you buy a car and dont use transit get a good car with A/C. Noob
Does bus P3287/R3287 has Balios Orange LED destination signs?
If buses dont have air conditioners then whats the small box on top of every buses
and whats the grill on the back of the C40LF’s(Diesel Version), C40LFR’s and the DE60LFR’s?
Jimmy: here’s the answer from fleet management.
Are all the 2001/2001 D40LF buses retrofitted with Cummins ISL engines or some of it still has Cummins ISC? and 1 more question will the DE40LF’s return to service in the future and also where are the DE40LF’s stored?
Jack: here is the answer from fleet management.
Why are poles on the newer trolleybuses replaced with yellow poles?
Jack: here’s the answer from fleet management.
Will Tranlink have an Orion VII demostrator bus this month?
Jimmy: There is an Orion demonstration bus currently on loan to CMBC but I don’t know when it might be out on the streets!
[…] […]
In its traditional sense, a shuttle bus was used by organizations like factories as a means of transportation of employees from their home to the place of work. So, a shuttle bus service is simply a form of public transport which ferries passengers between two destinations. However, over time,