Photos from the transit fan trip on Saturday
March 23, 2010
Photos from the transit fan trip on Saturday
March 23, 2010
If anyone was wondering what happened on the transit fan trip this Saturday, David Lam has this photo gallery for you.
You can also read Cliff and Ric’s account of the trip in this past post too!
This picture is one of my favourites: http://www.trans-continental.ca/vancouver/specialcollections/Orioncharter/IMG_5866.jpg.php
It shows the Orion I seemingly just finished traversing the tiny roundabout in the background. There’s even a cul-de-sac sign in the right hand part of the picture.
Hey Jhenifer,
I was wondering if possible I have a few request for future interesting post for the blog. 1) one posting on the people that clean sky train stations at night as well as possibly how often they clean things such as floors. 2) what happens after a bus or trolley has been marked for scrap what are the last days, hours, and minutes before these buses are turned into scrap also possibly where buses go to be scrapped is there a special place? Anyways just some things I would love to see in a future post and pictures would be awesome!
Thanks for your time!
I can answer you second question: After a bus is marked for scrap, they are stored at Oakridge Transit Centre. All the reusable parts (such as farebox, or other parts that can be used on the same type of buses that are still in active revenue service) will be removed, before the bus is towed away from OTC to Richmond Steels Scrap Metal Recycling Centre located on Mitchell Island for scrap. In fact, I do have some photos of the MCI Classics ripped and torn apart at Richmond Steels:
http://www.trans-vancouver.fotopic.net/p55822397.html
If I remember correctly, back in the time when the older Flyer trollies were scrapped for metal, Translink was compensated $1200 per bus. As for the trollies that were sold to Mendoza, Argentina, Translink received $2000 per unit.
I don’t know the exact procedures in terms of how are these buses scrapped and recycled into reusable metal. The security at Richmond Steels metal recycler is extremely strict, visitors were never welcomed which are probably attributed to two main reasons: highly specialized equipments which may pose severe physical risks leading to unnecessary legal liabilities, and perhaps along with certain trade secrets that they would rather keep the technology to their own monopoly.
Hope that partially answers your question!
Dave
Thanks for the suggestions Jim! I’ll see what I can do :)
Dave you certainly answered my second suggestion those photos were awesome! I alway wondered cause I knew they didn’t use the kind that regular car scrapping scrap yards use cause of the obvious oversize volume that buses generally consume! Maybe Jhenifer can find out more about the trolleys there might be something in the deep catacombs that is translinks archives! : ) (Giggle)
When exactly were the MCI classics removed from service and started getting scrapped? I still remember when I rod these buses after school during my years at elementary school. If I am not mistaken I think I saw these buses in service just until the Novas start arriving. Am I right? It is actually pretty sad to see what happens to the bus once it is marked for scrap.
BTW, did Trams get any of these MCI classic buses?
@ Ric: The last MCI Classics were withdrawn from revenue service in July 2008, the last ones were based at Poco Transit Centre. The first Novabuses were assigned into revenue service in July 2007…..by the time the MCI Classics were retired, the 2008 Novabuses were being delivered and prepared for revenue service in North Vancouver.
TRAMS managed to preserve a 1990 MCI Classic with suburban configurations (narrow rear exit, cushy seats instead of Otaco seats): S4276
Dave
Hey Jim, here are a few photos of what Flyer D902s stripped & prepared for their journey to the scrapper in 2001 looked like. Also pics of a couple of them chopped up by fire/rescue trainees at the VFD training grounds: http://www.busdude.com/HTML/CMBC_flyer%20d902.htm
Hey Reva,
Thanks for the link it was really cool and certainly what i was looking for. It is sort of sad yet completes my mental history of the very first trolley buses I ever got to ride. I remember when I was 3 and they were like giants and now that they are gone off the streets I am a bit sad but now the pics kind of brings back those memories. Thanx Reva!
Most D40s had the regular stainless steel seats like the Mark 1 trains and E902 trolleys, but I’ve been on a couple where they had the cushy seats like D40LF and the aisle in the middle was really narrow because all the seats were pairs except the very front and each seat had individual reading lights.
What’s going to happen when the bus coach numbering goes past 9999?
@ Andrew S: I believe certain batches of the 1991 D40s had the “suburban commuter”-style interiors which included nicer upholstery, reading lights, etc. They originally ran on long intercity routes such as the 601, 351, 160, etc. where such creature comforts would benefit long-haul commuters who might have to spend up to 2 hours (or more!) trying to get to or from downtown Vancouver each day. With the introduction of the Orion 5 highway coaches those D40s were probably relegated to more mundane routes but changing out the seats & reading lights wasn’t worth it by that time.
Jim:
To add to what’s been said already, my colleague over at fleet management has sent over this description of bus replacements.
Andrew S:
Here’s the answer to your bus number question from fleet management.
Ohhhh. The buses will still get their transit centre labels, right? (B, V, P, N, S, R, etc). The hybrid DE60LFR are Burnaby-based buses, right? They have no “B” prefix, though. (Btw, I noticed on some Novas, the “B” prefix is a larger size than the numbers and dark blue rather than black. And on the front of some Novas the “B” isn’t in front of the fleet number, it’s below it. =P) Oh, and the hybrid Novas also have no prefix… yet =D
The C40 buses still have five more years in service, right?
And just one more thing: Hasn’t the TransLink website changed to http://www.translink.ca? Even on the new buses, the old http://www.translink.bc.ca decal is applied instead =)
Why are the tires from old buses sent back to Translink?
Hit send too fast. To add to my last comment, can’t the fleet numbering just start from the beginning again once the numbering series reaches 9999, if buses marked in the those numbers have already been scrapped?
I would also like to know that once a bus gets crushed by the disposal company what happens to it? Does it get sent to a metal recycling plant where it gets melted down and turned into new metal products?
One more thing, a regular diesel bus has about a 18-20 years of service before it is de-commissioned. What about the CNG buses that got converted into diesel buses. Will they have the same life span as a standard diesel bus?
I think the tires are quite expensive, so they just reuse them? If the condition is good enough, I guess.
Tires are very expensive. Each steer tire which has to be a virgin (not retread). Can cost at least $300 plus. Drive tires might be a bit cheaper. Virgin tires always cost more than non-virgin tires.
Generally they will run a tire till a certain tread depth. What ever translink’s interval might be. Steers are pulled at a slightly higher tread depth before the drive tires. Once a tire reaches that tread depth. If it is a steer it goes back to the tire manufacture (someone like goodyear) or possibly translink has their own in house facility to do this. They will then remove the cap (which is the tread). They will then recap it with a new tread. Now you can never use a recapped steer tire. So a steer tire will always be recapped to become a drive tire. And a drive tire if it is a virgin or not will just be recapped to become a drive tire again.
Of course if the side wall is damaged (ie you see the cords) Then the tire is scraped and sent to be recycled.
Consider the fact that lets say translink has a policy to change the steer tire at a tread depth of 6/32 Most steers start at around 18-20/32. So if you are scrapping a bus that has a steer tires of about 12/32. You still have 50% of the life left in a tire. And if each tire costs $300 dollars. That is a saving of $150 per tire for $300 total. It might seem like a small amount but consider the amount of buses and it can add up very quickly.
Andrew S:
translink.ca is on most new vehicles I think — definitely the new SeaBus, for sure! But regardless, the translink.bc.ca URL redirects to translink.ca, so you’ll get to the right site either way.
Andrew S:
Here’s more on your questions from our fleet management department.
Ric:
Here’s the answers to your questions about bus numbering, disposal, and CNG bus life expectancy, from our fleet management department.
Jhen, what is the oldest model year of bus that is still in revenue service?
I know that the seats on the orion 5 highway coaches are fabric, but what about on the other types of buses? (Novas, New flyer D40LFs (all models), hybrid buses and community shuttles) Are they leather, vinyl or some other type of material?
Hi Ric, here’s the answer from fleet management.
I thought all high floor buses were retired from revenue service, are they not?
Which transit center are the 1995 high floor diesel buses based out off if they are still in revenue service?
Why are buses no longer ordered from MCI?
I remember the times when the MCI classics were still in service. They were the first diesel buses I ever got to ride in Greater vancouver.
It was pretty sad to see that they all got scrapped at Richmond steel, with the exception of S4276 which was preserved by trams. Some operators even said they should have been restored as the could have lasted for many more years. My last time riding a MCI classic was on the 301 route, from Newton Exchange in Surrey into Richmond Center back in September 2007. It fact it was the one that trams managed to preserve.
Ric: here are the answers from our fleet management department.
A few more things, why do the buses no longer use the mylar film scroll type destination signs?
These signs had less failures compared to the flip dot and LED destination signs. The only problems that I think they would have had would be the fluorescent tube for the back lighting burning out, and perhaps maybe the motor could burn out if they were motorized. With the flip dot and LED signs, lots more problems could develop (LEDs burning out, wiring problems, malfunctioning flip dots, controllers to decode the electronic signal dying, shorts in the wiring, corrosion, fuses blowing, and lots more). In fact there are to many problems to mention. Although, I would imagine that the scroll signs would have had problems when new routes were introduced as they couldn’t be reprogramed to introduce the new routes into them.
I notice that the buses have more destination sign problems now than when the scroll signs were used. Now I constantly notice buses with malfunctioning destination signs. Back in the days when scroll signs were used, I only noticed a problem once. The problem was: The sign wasn’t lit at night, probably because the fluorescent tube had burnt out.
What were the last buses that used these signs?
Are there anymore buses in revenue service that are using these signs?
Why did the 1991 New Flyer D40 high floor buses have electronic destination signs and the New Flyer D60 high floor buses have scroll signs? Didn’t the D40’s arrive before the D60’s?
Why did the tradesperson put more time into maintaining the MCI buses then they do in maintaining the New Flyer and Nova buses? Not to mention that the Orion highway buses are really well maintained.
one more thing, is Richmond Steel where all buses go to be scrapped?
Well… I saw 4 “retired” WV Orions yesterday being driven to Mitchell Island… And then another 4 today… I happen to be driving a bus that sits down at Marine & Knight a few times, and that’s where I saw then being driven westbound on Marine heading to the brisge access…
Ric: here is the answer to your questions about destination signs from our fleet management department.
Jhen, in regards to my question about some buses being maintained better than others this is what I mean.
I notice that the Nova and New Flyer buses break down a lot. I have also noticed there are lots of problems that are not fixed for weeks or sometimes even months. Sometimes I even report the problems to customer relations. Here are some examples: broken/malfunctioning destination signs, burnt out lights (interior and exterior) faulty rear door alarms (alarm sounding for no reason), broken/vandalized seats, windows that wouldn’t open, buzzer not sounding when pulling the bell cord to request a stop, broken/malfunctioning fare boxes and other problems.
However, with the MCIs and and Orion highway coaches, I notice that problems like the ones I mentioned are usually fixed faster. I have noticed that problems like the ones I mentioned don’t occur as often which to my understanding, it looks like the Orion highway coaches and MCIs were checked for problems everyday and any problems found were possibly fixed right away. I have also noticed that these buses broke down less often.
I take the bus everyday and when I get a Nova/New Flyer bus, I get a bus breakdown at least once a month, and notice problems with the bus about twice a week. I get a lot of Highway Orions on some of the routes that I take, and NOT one Highway Orion that I got EVER broke down, and I only noticed a problem with the bus once.
Back in the days when the MCI buses were in revenue service, NOT one MCI that I got EVER broke down.
Does this give you more information to answer my question?
Ric, here’s the response from our fleet management department.
Jhen, perhaps I should start reporting problems that I notice on buses to the drivers too so that they will write it down on the card so that it will be fixed.
Just last night I was on a bus where both of the rear interior lights that are suppose to be always on were not working so I reported it to the driver. It was a good thing that the other lights in the bus were on otherwise, it would have been totally dark in the bus.
Should I report all problems that I notice to the drivers even if I think they are just small problems?
This morning I was on a 480 bus that had a malfunctioning front destination sign where only the route number was displayed on the sign but there was no destination display. I reported this problem to the driver as I thought this is a major problem.
Jhen, by the way if a destination sign is malfunctioning shouldn’t the driver know? All flip-dot and LED destination signs as far as I can see have a control panel where the drivers put in codes to change the display. Doesn’t the problem show up on the screen of the control panel too, if what the destination sign shows is also what the screen on the control panel shows?
Ric, here is the answer to your first comment at 3:17 p.m., from our fleet management department.
Ric, here is the answer to your second comment at 3:24 p.m., from fleet management as well.
I have noticed that the CNG buses and CNG buses that have been converted into diesel buses, have no back window.
Why don’t they have a back window?
Wouldn’t that cause problems when the bus is backing up, as the wouldn’t be able to see out the back?
I have started to report problems that I notice on buses to the drivers. Just this morning, I was on a 403 bus that had a burnt out interior light which I reported to the driver at the end of the route before I got off, and saw the driver write it down on the maintenance card. Later in the day I was on another bus that had a malfunctioning PID unit which I also reported to the driver.
Jhen, do you think the following problems are worth reporting to the driver:
1) Broken bell cords
2) A window that wouldn’t open
3) A stop request buzzer that wouldn’t sound
Ric, here are the answers from fleet management.
The problems you list are reasonable to report to your driver.
Jhen, I’ve reported burnt out exterior lights (ex brake lights, turn signal lights) to drivers but should I report burnt out interior lights to the driver?
That would be reasonable also. As indicated in an earlier comment, use your best judgement to decide what you will report to the bus driver. Malfunctions or burnt out lights would be reasonable.
I have noticed that not only do the CNG buses not have a back window, I have noticed that the newer New Flyer D60LFR buses don’t have a back window as well. Why is that?
I also noticed a while back (but forgot to ask the question so here it is now) that the orion highway coaches don’t have a back window either. What is the reason for that?
One more thing, if all the New Flyer high floor D40 and D60 buses have been retired with the exception of the 1995 high floor D40 buses which were previously CNG that are still in revenue service, has any New Flyer D40/D60 low floor buses been retired? What about the highway coaches?
Ric: here is the answer from our fleet management department.
If a rear turn signal bulb is only half working, (top half working and the bottom half burnt out) is the bulb considered burnt out?
This morning I was transferring from the Canada line at Richmond-Brighouse onto the 410, one of the two rear left turn signal bulbs were only half working.
I notified the driver that one of the rear left turn signal bulbs were burnt out upon boarding and the driver went out to take a look and said that they’re both working.
Should I let the driver know that a brake light or turn signal light is burnt out if it is half working or are the bulbs not considered burnt out until they are completely burnt out?
Ric: here is the response from CMBC.
Thanks for the answer to my previous question. I will continue to report partly working lights to the driver. However, I mananged to board that exact bus 3 times after I reported the problem, and I noticed that the problem was not fixed until I boarded that bus again at the end of July.
What happened there? Why did it take so long before the problem was fixed?
Jhenifer, Hmm… Why didn’t my profile pic show up on my last comment and the big “G” showed up instead?
I noticed that there are some New Flyer C40LFR CNG buses in revenue service in the areas of Coquitlam and Po-Co.
Why were the original New Flyer C40 and C40LF buses converted into diesel buses?
How many years will these buses be in revenue service for before being retired/scrapped?
Ric
The C40’s has been converted to diesel because CNG is probaly too expensive, but i dont know why the C40LF’s been converted to diesel and also one thing
Did any one of the D40’s and D60’s preserved by TRAMS?
Do some #430 trips operate from Port Coquitlam Transit centre? because in this photo http://billlmf-yvr.fotopic.netp61726421.html there is a “P” prefix on this bus.
oops! sorry theres a typo it was suppose to be http://billlmf-yvr.fotopic.net/p61726421.html
Jimmy: here’s the answer from CMBC.
Jimmy, the bus in the picture was a CNG bus that was converted to diesel. The CNG buses were operated out of PoCo transit center. When they were converted to diesel buses they were reallocated to Richmond Transit Center, but like Jhenifer has mentioned the prefix was not changed.
However, you will see buses with the “R” prefix on the 49 route, since this route operates from Richmond Transit Center Monday-Friday. I asked this question on another blog post and it was answered by a CMBC operator.
Did any D40’s or D60’s preserved by TRAMS?
Jhen
one D40LF 7395 has been retired due to engine fire in 2008
Are the trolley fan trips public events or private events?
Jimmy: This trip was fan-organized and was open to the public as long as capacity could be accommodated, and as long as you could chip in for costs :)
Was just wondering if all the C40s were scrapped?
Hi Thomas: here’s the answer to your question.
Greg, the WV orion I’s were scrapped at Mitchell Island?