Walk in the shoes of a transit customer and self-advocate for people living with autism. Kayla Tellier shares her experience and how you can help foster a supportive space on transit for all abilities.

Come behind the scenes with us as What’s the T: the TransLink Podcast with Jawn Jang reveals the voices and stories that drive Metro Vancouver’s transit system forward. Subscribe and listen everywhere you get your podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Pocket Casts!

Transcript

HOST JAWN JANG: Hey, welcome to What’s the T: the TransLink Podcast. I’m your host, Jawn Jang. Here’s what we’re checking out on this episode.

UNKNOWN VOICE: Coast Mountain Bus Company and Pacific Autism Family Network present supporting your neurodivergent passengers.

JAWN: What is the transit experience for people living with autism?

VOICEOVER 1: The next station is.

[INTRODUCTION MUSIC PLAYS]

VOICEOVER 2: Welcome to What’s the T: the TransLink Podcast.

JAWN:In April 2025, TransLink announced that the Coast Mountain Bus Company, in partnership with the Pacific Autism Family Network, updated the Bus Operator Training program to improve the transit experience for neurodivergent customers in Metro Vancouver. A new 14 minute training video provides current and new operators with facts, figures and insights about transit customers who are part of the neurodivergent community. Now, one of the actors in that video, Kayla, is a self-advocate working to raise awareness as someone living with autism. We had the chance to sit down with Kayla and discuss her own lived experiences taking transit in Metro Vancouver.

If you’re not on the spectrum, if you don’t have autism, you might consider the transit ride to be a small, small part of your day. But in your case, and maybe others who are on the spectrum taking transit and that whole experience is one of the biggest things you’re thinking about in that day, because you know that there’s going to be so many things that are beyond your control that you are simply subject to in that environment. And it can be, to your point, overwhelming, anxiety inducing, stressful, um, all of these different things. And so I wonder how many times you’ve had experiences with even other customers who aren’t thinking about it that way and don’t fully understand, and maybe are not as empathetic as you would like them to be? Like, is that maybe one of the most common issues that you find on transit?

KAYLA TELLIER: Well, I also have some joint issues that make it really hard to stand on the bus and the train. And, um, and I don’t like I can walk across a flat floor just fine. And, and so getting on the bus, even if somebody watches me walking, it’s not evident that I might need a seat. And so if I can’t find a seat further back and I have to take up one of those seats that’s meant for people who are elderly or have disabilities. The minute somebody gets on the bus who also might need that seat. I’m one of the first people they might expect to get up. Because I’m young, I look healthy, I look capable, and I’ve had a lot of people get really mad at me for not getting out of the seat. And then in order to avoid conflict, I do. But then sometimes it’s I can’t find a place to stand where I can get that extra support. So I have to get off the bus, or I have to get off the train and wait for the next one, and hope that I can get a place where I can support myself or get a seat. Um, and, uh, that’s another thing that’s very common in the autistic population is muscle and joint issues. And, uh, even there are people who are not autistic who have invisible joint and muscle issues. And so, um, that’s one of the invisible disabilities that can also make taking transit really hard and trying to explain that to other customers, even when you look like you should be capable, is a really difficult thing to do. Let us maybe go back in time a little bit to how you started using transit and when you were younger, like, was it a not always an easy experience because there’s probably more understanding and awareness now today than there might have been when you were younger and starting to take transit on a more regular basis. Right? Yeah. During high school, I, I learned to take transit. I didn’t have to take it very far at that time, which I was thankful for. Um, but yeah, it could get super crowded, I bet. Uh, and it could be very overwhelming. So I always, like. I left the house an hour before I actually had to, so that once I got to my destination, I had time to decompress from my transit ride and actually be prepared to do my schoolwork.

JAWN: Can we dive on that a little bit? Because what does that mean? And, you know, when I get off the bus or I get off the SkyTrain, for me, I’m just heading to my next destination. Whether it’s work and I’m focusing on work, I’m thinking about work, work, meetings, work, everything. What is that time of decompression for you and why is it so important?

KAYLA: Um, for me, it’s either listening to music or, uh, sometimes I’ll do some meditation. Um, in high school, it was more just listening to music, and then I read a book. Um, but when I get really overwhelmed, my brain then has a hard time processing anything else. And so when once I get to that point, I need to be able to take that time for myself and kind of block the world out so that my brain is then ready to work and do the next thing that I need to do. And so, yeah, if if it’s been a very overwhelming bus ride, I can’t just jump straight into schoolwork or, uh, or now I my regular job because my brain is just so overloaded that it literally will not let me do anything else.

JAWN: It’s like going to the gym and you’ve had this great intense workout. Your muscles are sore. You can’t just, like, start doing a 500 meter swim, like back and forth, whatever it is. So you got to give yourself a chance to rest, recuperate, re-energize. And then the next task is is more accomplishable that way, right? Yes, I see that. That makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it that way. And I think that’s a very good point to bring up. So thank you for sharing that. Um, one thing I wanted to ask you too was, Is, um, maybe how those on the spectrum with autism, um, have preferences on where they like sitting. So if you have a particular bus route that you know you want to take or you have to take every single day, there might be a spot on that bus that is comforting to you. It’s like your your safe space on that bus. In this scenario, let’s say that it’s a mostly empty bus, and that favorite spot of yours happens to be next to someone. When you sit down in your favorite spot to you, it’s not a problem, because this is your area and a place where you’re feeling safe in a very busy, kind of chaotic environment. But that person you just sat next to might now be thinking, this bus is mostly empty. Why are you deciding to sit next to me of all places? There’s like several empty chairs here, and I think that’s also where, um, again, you shouldn’t make assumptions and you need to show a little bit more empathy and understanding, but take us through that experience. Maybe you’ve been in that position before.

KAYLA: Um, I, I haven’t personally, but I do have a younger brother who actually he has. He has down syndrome, but, um, he definitely has that struggle. He he definitely likes specific seats on the bus if he can get them. Um, he, he is a little bit more flexible than some people, but, um, if his seat is open that he likes to sit in, whether or not somebody is in the next seat, he’s going to sit there. Um, and he doesn’t understand that that might not be the most appropriate thing. Um, although thankfully with him, most people, because it is a visible disability, most people see it and they’re like, oh, he doesn’t understand. Um, but there are a lot of autistic people who are the same way. Um, and some people who, like, are, are very rigid that they really need that seat because that’s their comfort zone. Or maybe it’s that they went through transit training with a program, and every time that they were on the bus with their worker, that was where they sat. And now they’re by themselves and that spot is taken. But that’s where they feel like they need to sit, because that’s where they sat during their training. And that’s the routine that they got used to. It’s familiar to them. Yeah. And so it makes it so it can be really difficult, um, on both sides for the autistic person and for the person who’s just sitting there going, I don’t I don’t understand why you need this seat. Um, it’s a really difficult situation to deal with because, um, most autistic people aren’t going to come out and say, I’m autistic, and that’s my comfort place. Um, and some of them might even not know how to verbalize it. Um, they just know that that’s where they feel safe. Um, and so even telling the person to try and help them understand might not be something that they’re capable of. Yeah. Um, which is which makes it even harder.

JAWN: And we are Canadians at the end of the day, like, we’re innately polite people, so we don’t want to get into the habit of asking people like, what’s wrong with you? Right. Like, that’s not how Canadians are taught. Like, it’s it’s in our nature to be, um, just more reserved, I suppose, and a little bit more understanding. But when that situation happens, you know, you’re just thinking like, well, why is this person choosing to sit next to me if there’s an empty bus? And I don’t know that enough people are thinking about the, the, you know, the, the invisible disabilities, people that are on the spectrum, autism as being one of those answers. And when you do understand that, when you do realize that this is what’s happening, you’re no longer feeling like, oh, I like there’s there’s no threat. You know, like I totally understand. And if anything, I want to make sure that they’re comfortable too, because transit should be comfortable.

KAYLA: Yeah.

JAWN: For everyone. And so that’s the goal. Um, and I just I wish there was an easier way to, to kind of bridge that gap, because it’s hard sometimes for people to, to understand that if they don’t have the experience of maybe knowing someone that’s on the spectrum or family member or something like that.

KAYLA: Right. Yeah. And yeah, I think the best thing we can really do is just raise that awareness so that more people are aware that this might be what the person next to them is struggling with. Um, and even though it’s not visible, it’s there. Um, and there’s like you said, if somebody doesn’t have a family member or hasn’t interacted with an autistic person or somebody with an invisible disability ever in their lives, how are they supposed to understand if we don’t teach them, if they if they’ve never had any experience and never had any training? There there is no way for them to know. Exactly. And so, yeah, the best thing that we can do is, is things like this where we get the word out and yeah, just talk about it and let people know. Because if you don’t have the information, you can’t do anything about it. We’ll take a quick break on what’s the T the TransLink podcast.

JAWN: In conversation with Kayla Tellier, a self-advocate working to raise awareness as someone living with autism and learning about her transit experiences on our system. Kayla, I want to bring up something that I feel is really important here, so please explain so that I can fully understand what exactly is stimming and why is there a kind of misunderstanding about it?

KAYLA: So stimming is short for self-stimulatory behaviour. Um, and it’s any repetitive motion or sometimes it’s, it’s a verbal stim that’s a repetitive sound that can help the person feel more comfortable. Um, some people hum. Some people will grunt, um, some people will growl, and some people will rock, or they’ll rub their hands, or maybe they’ll be patting their lap. Um, and yeah, it can come out in all sorts of different ways. And it’s, it’s a way to regulate everything that’s going on in your brain. Um, it’s very similar to, like, if you’re driving and you’re tired, you might roll down the window so that the cool air comes in to, to stimulate you and keep you awake.

JAWN: Done that many times.

KAYLA: Yeah, yeah. Or if or if you’re finding the driving atmosphere very overstimulating, you might turn off your music so that there’s less stimulus coming at you and you can focus on the road. Mhm. So it’s it’s a very similar idea to that. Only like in for an autistic person. Um, our brains don’t filter out a lot of the sensory stimuli that a typical person’s brain will. Um, so we’re getting a lot more sensory information than the average person.

JAWN: Right.

KAYLA: And so and an environment that you might not find overwhelming could be really overwhelming for me.

JAWN: Definitely.

KAYLA: And it’s the way that, uh, that autistic people handle those situations. And it might just look a little different than, like, how you would handle something that’s overwhelming. Um, and like, even, like, a lot of people will click pens. That’s, uh, that’s a stim, right? And even, like, a typical person will sit there and click a pen, right. Um, and yeah, it just happens more frequently and more obvious, uh, obviously for the autistic population.

JAWN: Gotcha. And I think like this, we kind of, as a society saw people realize how beneficial stimming can be when we had the sudden urge of fidget spinners.

KAYLA: Right.

JAWN: Because everyone realized like, oh, it’s actually super convenient to have this neat little gadget. There’s so many different kinds of fidget spinners, so I can’t describe exactly what they look like. But, um, a lot of my friends got one, and they really found it so beneficial to have this thing, whether it’s a ring or just something you can just play with because it just brings you a sudden sense of calmness. And to your point, that’s what stimming is. It’s like in some cases, it’s a invisible fidget spinner that can be something you control through your own body words, singing, humming, whatever it might be, and it brings you that inner calmness. So if you’re listening and you don’t, um, if you’re if you’re not autistic and if you’ve at least had a chance to use a fidget spinner, maybe you kind of understand what we’re talking about here.

KAYLA: Yeah, I think the the fidget spinners really helped out with, um, people understanding, um, the, the fidgets or the stems of autistic people and people with ADHD who really need it on like a daily basis. And then other people, like you said, other people got the fidget spinners and And it kind of it kind of closed that gap. A little of misunderstanding where, yeah, more people were like, hey, yeah, this is actually really helpful. I kind of I kind of understand where you’re coming from. And it was it was really neat when, when. Yeah, that became a big thing because it became a lot easier to like, tell people and have that understanding.

JAWN: You know, as we leave this conversation, is there one major or key takeaway that you want more people to maybe just bring with them on a day to day basis the next time they’re on the bus or on a Skytrain? What’s a way that they can try and be a little bit more understanding for people who are on the spectrum? Um, I guess the biggest thing is just if you see somebody doing something unexpected or that you might find odd just being aware of invisible disabilities and the fact that that might be very necessary for that person to help them get through that transit ride.

KAYLA: Yeah.

JAWN: Fair enough. And again, just remember, the transit ride for you might not feel like a big deal because you take it every day. You know what to expect. You know that you got to get to work or school or an appointment at a specific time. You’ve mapped it all out in your head. But for someone who is on the spectrum, that transit ride could be one of the biggest hurdles for them that day. So try to be a little bit more empathetic, a little bit more caring, a little bit more patient. And honestly, the world just needs a lot more kindness these days. So that’s all we’re really asking for. Uh, Kayla, really appreciate you giving us some time here and being able to share your experiences and your thoughts and your perspectives with us. Really appreciate this. Thank you so much.

KAYLA: Thank you for having me.

JAWN: Making transit a more comfortable experience for everyone isn’t going to happen overnight. A lot of important work is being done behind the scenes, and conversations like this help us get there just by sharing her insight today and taking us through her lived experiences. Kayla has already taught me so much about things that I simply didn’t know or realize before now. If at any moment during this conversation you found yourself thinking, you know, I think I’m guilty about doing some of these things or thinking some of these things. Well, don’t worry, because this isn’t meant to make you feel bad or to point any fingers. All we’re trying to do is shine a light on something important, because we would love for every transit ride to feel safe and comfortable for everyone. So my thanks to Kayla for sitting down and sharing this conversation with me today. My thanks to producers Allen and Sydney for all of their hard work behind the scenes. And of course, my thanks to you for listening and subscribing. I’ve been your host, John Jang and until next time, have a safe trip.